The Long Strange Trip Episode 21: The Hidden Voices Running Your Life Explained (IFS Therapy) with Tammy Sollenberger
About the Episode:
Why Does It Feel Like There’s a Committee Meeting in My Head?
Have you ever felt completely torn between two different versions of yourself? One part of you is ready to conquer the world, while another just wants to hide under the covers and avoid the "navel-gazing" altogether. If so, you’re definitely not alone. I’ve spent a lot of my life in the "business guy" mode, but lately, I’ve been finding that my internal landscape is a lot more crowded than I realized.
I recently sat down with Tammy Sollenberger, a gifted therapist who specializes in something called Internal Family Systems (IFS). Honestly, I’m still processing a lot of it myself. I’m a student of this stuff just as much as anyone else. But the way she explains how our "parts" operate really hit home for me, especially as I navigate this "long strange trip" of transition.
What Exactly is IFS?
Think of your mind not as one single "you," but as a family. This is the core of Richard Schwartz's IFS model. We all have these internal parts, each with its own feelings, history, and sometimes frustratingly, its own agenda.
I shared a personal example with Tammy about my struggle with skiing.
The Legacy Part: This part is determined to keep going, desperate to surpass my father’s skiing legacy.
The Realist Part: This part is looking at my age (I’m 73 now) and feeling a bit resigned to the physical toll.
Do you have parts like that? Maybe a part that’s a "serial entrepreneur" and another that’s just plain exhausted by the "wealth management" of it all?
The Goal: Befriending the Chaos
The point of IFS isn't to "fix" these parts or make them go away. It’s about two main things:
Multiplicity Awareness: Just noticing that these parts exist and realizing they aren't all of who you are.
Self-Leadership: Finding that calm, authentic center—the "Self"—that can actually lead the committee instead of being shouted down by it.
"I teach this stuff, and yet I still find myself stuck in the middle of these internal tug-of-wars."
Learning to "Unblend"
One of the most helpful things Tammy talked about was unblending.
When you’re "blended" with a part—say, a part that feels like a "Lost Retiree"—it’s hard to see anything else. You are the loss. Unblending is the process of stepping back just enough to say, "Okay, a part of me feels lost, but it’s not the whole story."
It creates a little white space. It allows for a bit of peace, even if the dilemma itself hasn't been solved yet.
Why Does This Matter Now?
For those of us in the second half of life, these internal conflicts can get loud. We’re dealing with transitions that feel like "late-life necessities" rather than just choices.
If I’m no longer the guy running the show, who am I?
By recognizing these parts, we can start to have a much more honest and hopefully warmer, conversation with ourselves.
What parts are showing up for you today?Are they curious, or are they a little anxious about what’s next?
A few things to chew on:
Notice the committee: Next time you feel conflicted, try to identify which "part" is speaking.
Give it some space: Try "unblending" by acknowledging the feeling without letting it drive the car.
Be a fellow traveler: You don’t have to have the answers; sometimes just asking the questions is enough.
If you want to hear more of my conversation with Tammy, you can find the full talk here. We dive much deeper into how this "inner harmony" thing actually works when life gets messy.
And that, for the most part, is a good place to start.
Transcription:
Introduction (Josh)
Welcome to the Long Strange Trip. I'm Josh. the host of the show. We're going to dig into six areas together, finding real work-life integration. Instead of that brutal 9 to 5 5 split too many business owners to live with. We're going to approach retirement as an actual reinvention. Rather than just stopping work. and we're facing death honestly, and avoiding PTSD around it. We're also building resilience,
when life throws us curve balls. We're sharing wisdom across generations. And finally, we're understanding the patterns that show up in all our transitions. I'm not coming at this as an expert I'm a fellow traveler figuring this stuff out in real time.
Especially now as I navigate my own dual cancer diagnosis at 73.
Welcome to the Long Strange Trip. I'm glad you're here.
Josh Patrick (00:01.324)
Hey, how are you today? This is Josh Patrick, and you have the Long Strange Trip podcast. And my guest today is Tammy Sollenberger. Tammy is a very talented IFS therapist. It stands for internal family systems. And she was introduced to me by a friend of mine. And I've had some chance to talk to Tammy a few times. And it's been really, really valuable and interesting. And she is
very knowledgeable about what IFS is because she's an IFS therapist. And instead of me talking about IFS because I don't know anything about it, let's bring Tammy on. Hey, Tammy, how are you today? I'm great. Excuse me. Yeah, I'm wonderful. How are you? It's good to see you. I'm good. I'm finally over my whatever it was I had. That's good to hear. Yeah, that took me. That took me a while to get by that. So so, Tammy,
Tammy Sollenberger (00:41.631)
I'm great. Excuse me. Yeah, I'm wonderful. How are you? It's good to see you.
Tammy Sollenberger (00:49.751)
That's good to hear. Good to hear.
Josh Patrick (00:56.333)
To a lay person who wouldn't really know a bunch about different schools of psychology, what is IFS and why might it be useful? So when we think about IFS, it stands for internal family systems, which really is that inside family. People can think about
Tammy Sollenberger (01:06.079)
Yeah. So when we think about IFS, it's what stands for internal family systems, which really is that inside family. People can think about their outside family, their extended family. Like you could think about you and your wife and your kids and grandkids. Like that's your external family and you have relationships with those people, different relationships. And so what Richard Schwartz, who's the founder of IFS came to discover is that we
Josh Patrick (01:17.111)
their outside family, their extended family. Like you could think about you and your wife and your kids and grandkids. Like that's your external family and you have relationships with those people, different relationships. And so what Richard Schwartz, who's the founder of IFS came to discover is that we have an internal family, these parts of us that all interact with each other and can interact with us. So when we think about
Tammy Sollenberger (01:34.785)
have an internal family, these parts of us that all interact with each other and can interact with us. So when we think about, let's say thinking about a dilemma. So have you had a dilemma lately that has been, like whether it's, be tough or not so tough? Any dilemma you've had lately?
Josh Patrick (01:44.413)
Let's say thinking about a dilemma. So have you had a dilemma lately that has been like whether it's could be tough or not so tough. Any dilemma you had lately? I can't ski anymore.
Tammy Sollenberger (01:58.303)
Okay, okay, all right. So when you think about that dilemma of not being able to ski, my guess is you have different parts of you that have different feelings, beliefs, thoughts about that dilemma.
Josh Patrick (01:59.757)
Right. So when you think about that dilemma of not being able to ski, my guess is you have different parts of you that have different feelings, beliefs, thoughts about that dilemma. It's probably true. Okay. Let's just guess that it, okay, so it's probably true. So tell me about probably true. probably true means that, you know, I'm sure there are different parts of me.
Tammy Sollenberger (02:14.071)
Okay. Let's just guess that it, okay, so it's probably true. So tell me about probably true.
Josh Patrick (02:27.756)
I have different feelings about me not being able to ski anymore. I mean, there's one part that likely says, well, what do you expect? You're 73 years old and people end up nuts. There aren't many people that ski past 73. Another another part might say, well, your father ski to 84 and you want to beat that. So, you know, these different conversations going on in my head about not being able to ski. And most of them are not.
Tammy Sollenberger (02:31.317)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tammy Sollenberger (02:47.285)
Yeah, exactly.
Josh Patrick (02:56.236)
Especially positive, most of them are kind of negative because skein has been my thing and all of it's not my thing anymore. Yeah, yeah, this is such a great example so we could really take all the parts of you, all those voices, that whole conversation and name those as parts and we can help you get in relationship to them so we could hear the one that says, what do you think you're 70? I you're 73, good enough.
Tammy Sollenberger (03:04.375)
Yeah, yeah, this is such a great example. So we could really take all the parts of you, all those voices, that whole conversation and name those as parts. And we could help you get in relationship to them. So we could hear the one that says, what do you think you're 70? I mean, you're 73. Good enough, good enough. Or, know, dad did it till 82.
Josh Patrick (03:25.589)
good enough or, you know, dad did it till 82, parts are disappointed, parts are mad, parts are frustrated. And so we all have that inner dialogue. And so that's what IFS says is we all have this inner dialogue, but the inner dialogue are really parts of us. And we, when we unblend, which was, is the idea of getting a little bit of space between us and our parts, we can begin to have a relationship and a dialogue with these parts, which creates more harmony.
Tammy Sollenberger (03:29.153)
parts are disappointed, parts are mad, parts are frustrated. And so we all have that inner dialogue. And so that's what IFS says is we all have this inner dialogue, but that inner dialogue are really parts of us. And we, when we unblend, which is that idea of getting a little bit of space between us and our parts, we can begin to have a relationship and a dialogue with these parts, which creates more harmony, more peace inside. even if, like we're not solving.
Josh Patrick (03:54.751)
more peace inside? Even if we're not solving the problem of you not being able to ski, but what would happen if we helped you have a conversation with these different parts of you so there isn't so much tension, there isn't conflict, there isn't this frustration inside? Yeah, we don't solve the skiing problem, but we give you a little bit more internal peace. Okay, so is that what the goal of IFS is to give you internal peace?
Tammy Sollenberger (03:58.411)
the problem of you not being able to ski, but what would happen if we helped you have a conversation with these different parts of you so there isn't so much tension, there isn't conflict, there isn't this frustration inside? Yeah, we don't solve the skiing problem, but we give you a little bit more internal peace.
Tammy Sollenberger (04:23.383)
So one of the goals, Dick says there's four goals and of course I'm not gonna remember them at all. But one of the goals, so I'll give you two goals and this might not even be Dick's four goals but I'll give you two. One is that idea of the multiplicity. The goal is that can I notice these different parts of me that have different agendas, different thoughts, different feelings, different perspectives? And can I get in a relationship? Can I befriend these different parts of us or different parts of me? That's first goal.
Josh Patrick (04:23.723)
So one of the goals, says there's four goals and of course I'm not gonna remember them at all. But one of the goals, so I'll give you two goals and this might not even be Dick's four goals but I'll give you two. One is that idea of the multiplicity. The goal is that can I notice these different parts of me that have different agendas, different spots, different feelings, different perspectives and can I get in a relationship, can I befriend these different parts of us or different parts of me? That's first goal.
Tammy Sollenberger (04:52.563)
unblending and befriending. And then the second goal is the self leadership. So who I am and who you are, Josh, is this authentic self with a capital S. And that authentic self, we are that or we feel that when we have these C qualities of calm, compassion, courageousness, connectedness, curiosity, creativity, clarity. I think that's all of them.
Josh Patrick (04:52.881)
unblending and befriending. And then the second goal is the self leadership. So who I am and who you are, Josh, is this authentic self with a capital S. And an authentic self, we are that or we feel that when we have these C qualities of calm, compassion, courageousness, connectedness, curiosity, creativity, clarity. I think that's all of them.
Tammy Sollenberger (05:18.357)
So when we have those, when we're feeling those, we're experiencing those, we feel more like in our seat. We feel more in our center. And so we want to be led in our life by that. Like I want me, the authentic me, to be driving the bus of my life most of the time. And I can have these parts to be co-pilots with me. They are helpful. They give me information. But I don't want them driving the bus. And that's how most of us live. Most of us live with these parts.
Josh Patrick (05:18.665)
So when we have those more feeling those more experiencing those, we feel more like in our seats, we feel more in our center. And so we want to be led in our life by that. Like I want me, the authentic me to be driving the bus of my life most of the time. And I can have these parts to be co-pilots with me. They are helpful, they give me information, but I don't want them driving the bus. And that's how most of us live. Most of us live with these parts.
Tammy Sollenberger (05:47.179)
driving the bus. So if that part of you that said bad you, should have, you should keep skiing, you should have skied 10 more years, you suck. And that part was driving the bus. What would that feel like if you if that part was driving the bus of your day?
Josh Patrick (05:47.518)
driving the bus. So if that part of you that said bad you, you should have, you should keep skiing, you should have skied 10 more years, you suck, and that part was driving the bus, what would that feel like if that part was driving the bus of your day? Pretty crappy, that's for sure. That would be, that would make me, that would drive me to unhappiness.
Tammy Sollenberger (06:12.039)
It would, yes it would and it would probably create a lot of other parts, right? You'd be unhappy.
Josh Patrick (06:12.65)
Yes, it would. And it would probably create a lot of other parts, right? But there's something that I've noticed about that. There are actually two things I've noticed. I just want to stop and kind of delve into a little bit. One is the authentic self. Now, it seems like all the pieces of the authentic self are all positive.
Tammy Sollenberger (06:25.036)
Great.
Tammy Sollenberger (06:35.339)
Yeah. Yeah. But could it be... Go ahead.
Josh Patrick (06:37.226)
Is it are there parts of an authentic self that are not positive? Let's say let's say courageousness, okay, so courageousness could be something positive like I'm courageous and That means I speak up for myself, but craziness also could be something that could be
Tammy Sollenberger (06:45.303)
Well, don't think it would be positive or negative. Let's say, let's say courageousness. So courageousness could be something positive. Like I'm courageous and that means I speak up for myself. But courageousness also could be something that could be, not that it's negative, but it could cause problems, right? Like I could be courageous in my family or with, let's say my mom or with my partner and say like, I don't want to be treated that way anymore.
Josh Patrick (07:02.738)
Not that it's negative, but it could cause problems, right? Like I could be courageous in my family or with, let's say my mom or with my partner and say like, I don't want to be treated that way anymore. Right? So the courage in me could actually cause a lot of, difficulty with my relationships. If I, if I, if I stop being small by the parts of me say be small, if I stopped doing that and I, if I get to know the parts of me that keep me small and I step into more courageousness,
Tammy Sollenberger (07:13.109)
Right? So the courage in me could actually cause a lot of, difficulty with my relationships. If I, if I, if I stop being small, where the parts of me say be small, if I stopped doing that and I, you if I get to know the parts of me that keep me small and I step into more courageousness, that might upend some things. And so other parts of me might not think that's positive.
Josh Patrick (07:33.044)
that might upend some things. And so other parts of me might not think that's positive. Interesting. mean, that's a really interesting way look at that, because all the adjectives used about being authentic self, in my mind, all went to positive.
Tammy Sollenberger (07:53.717)
Yeah. Yeah.
Do you have an idea of what would be a negative or what should be a negative quality of self? Or if you think about a negative quality.
Josh Patrick (07:59.016)
what would be a negative or what should be a negative quality of self if you think about a negative quality?
Well, temper would be bad. That would be a negative quality, having a bad temper. Yeah. Yeah. But my guess is that would be part driven. A part would have a bad temper because there'd be this energy, this urgency, this like, how do I stand up for myself in this clear-minded, courageous way versus standing up for myself with a temper that there's all this energy and there's
Tammy Sollenberger (08:14.901)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that would, my guess is that would be part driven, right? A part would have a bad temper because there'd be this energy, this urgency, this like, you know, how do I stand up for myself in a clear minded courageous way versus standing up for myself with a temper that like there's all this energy and there's this, this action in this sort of, it's going to feel different. You're gonna have a different experience of standing up for myself with a temper.
Josh Patrick (08:37.009)
this action in this sort of, it's going to feel different. You're going have a different experience of standing up for myself with a temper, part driven, or standing up for myself self driven from my center. Like, no, you cannot treat me that way. Those are very different experiences. So self driven is not part driven.
Tammy Sollenberger (08:44.459)
heart driven or standing up for myself, self driven from my center. Like, no, you cannot treat me that way. Those are very different experiences.
Josh Patrick (08:58.633)
And how do we know we're self-driven? So, in actuality, wouldn't be one or the other. We would use that as kind of like teaching tools. So, we would know if we're self-driven, first of all, for those C qualities. Like, I know I'm self-driven if I'm feeling more connected, I'm feeling more connected to you, I feel more connected to myself, to my body. Another way I know that I'm kind of more self-driven is my face is softer. There's like a softening in my face.
Tammy Sollenberger (09:01.994)
So...
In actuality, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be one or the other. So we just use that as kind of like teaching tools. So we would know if we're self driven, first of all, for those C qualities, like I know I'm self driven, if I'm feeling more connected, I'm feeling more connected to you and feel more connected to myself to my body. Another way I know that I'm kind of more self driven is my face is softer. There's there's like a softening in my face and opening in my heart. There's like more spaciousness, there's like a felt sense for me that's going to feel
Josh Patrick (09:28.584)
an opening in my heart, there's like more spaciousness. There's like a felt sense for me that's going to feel different for everyone. Like everyone feels a little bit different with this being self-driven. And so it's kind of, it's interesting to think about like, if you're watching a sunset or if you're holding a baby or if you're having one of these experiences where you feel so connected to yourself, the universe, the divine, what is that experience like when you're in self, which I'm putting quotes? What is that like? What's that like in your body?
Tammy Sollenberger (09:33.297)
different for everyone. Like everyone feels a little bit different with this being self-driven. And so it's kind of interesting to think about like, if you're watching a sunset or if you're holding a baby or if you're having one of these experiences where you feel so connected to yourself, the universe, the divine, what is that experience like when you're
in self, which I'm putting in quotes. What is that like? What's that like in your body? How does it feel? there a softening? Is there more of a flow? Is there more openness? Is there more creativity? Like, what does that experience feel like?
Josh Patrick (09:57.074)
How does it feel? there a softening? Is there more flow? Is there more openness? Is there more creativity? Like, what does that experience feel like? So with IFS, what is the goal? Is there a goal, first of all? I think the goal would be acknowledging that there are parts of me here, offending those parts, and being more self-led in my life, being more aware of parts, and being more self-led as I go throughout my life.
Tammy Sollenberger (10:11.467)
I think the goal would be acknowledging that they're parts of me here.
befriending those parts and being more self-led in my life, being more aware of parts and being more self-led as I go throughout my life. As I go pick, I'm gonna go pick up my son from school after this and who knows what's gonna be happen when he gets in the car. You never know what's gonna be happening, right? What kind of day he had. And so how can I be more self-led, open, curious with him versus like, like his attitude is gonna ruin my night or like.
Josh Patrick (10:26.61)
is I'm gonna go pick up my son from school after this, and who knows what's gonna be happen when he gets in the car. You never know what's gonna be happening, right? What kind of day he had. And so how can I be more self-led, open, curious with him versus like, like his attitude is gonna ruin my night? like, so how can I just be more open and curious about whatever he's, whatever? So that's a good example of IFS goal or being more self-led.
Tammy Sollenberger (10:44.113)
So how can I just be more open and curious about whatever he's whatever so that would that's a good example of of IFS goal or being more self-led.
Josh Patrick (11:01.958)
What is the ultimate outcome of IFS?
Tammy Sollenberger (11:07.819)
Well, one of the things that, so IFS, have these different, we talk about the structure of personality, we have different parts. So we have parts that protect us. And so we have parts we call them managers and firefighters. These are two types of protectors. The managers are proactive. So they're the ones that say, be nice. No one will be mad at you if you're nice.
Josh Patrick (11:08.178)
Well, so one of the things that, so I guess we have these different, we talk about the structure of personality, we have different parts. So we have parts that protect us. And so we have parts we call them managers and firefighters. These are two types of protectors. The managers are proactive. So they're the ones that say, be nice, no one will be mad at you if you're nice.
Tammy Sollenberger (11:32.625)
be organized, be on time. Like we usually like our managers. make, they make our life look pretty and nice, but then, they keep us from being triggered, right? Like me saying like, I'm going to be nice and everyone's going to love me and I'm going to be, I'm going to do all these things to make sure that I'm loved, lovable, but something is going to happen. I'm going to get triggered in some way. And when I get triggered and I feel unlovable or unworthy or bad in some way, my firefighter.
Josh Patrick (11:32.904)
be organized, be on time. We usually like our managers. make our life look pretty and nice. But then, and they keep us from being triggered, right? Like me saying like, I'm gonna be nice and everyone's gonna love me and I'm gonna do all these things to make sure that I'm lovable. But something's gonna happen. I'm gonna get triggered in some way. And when I get triggered and I feel unlovable or unworthy or bad in some way, my firefighter protective part comes in.
Tammy Sollenberger (12:00.171)
protective part comes in to take care of that fire, to take care of that heat of that trigger. So those are protective parts, managers and firefighters. Managers are proactive, firefighters are reactive. And then if you picture them like an upside down triangle, managers on one side, firefighters on the other, at the bottom of that triangle we call exiles. And those are the parts that have the burden of belief, of those core beliefs of I'm
Josh Patrick (12:02.439)
to take care of that fire, to take care of that heat of that trigger. So those are protective parts, managers and firefighters. Managers are proactive, firefighters are reactive. And then if you picture them like an upside down triangle, managers on one side, firefighters on the other, at the bottom of that triangle we call exiles. And those are the parts that have the burden of belief, those core beliefs of I'm bad, I'm unlovable, I'm unworthy.
Tammy Sollenberger (12:27.635)
I'm bad, I'm unlovable, I'm unworthy. Any other core beliefs you could think of that those exiles might carry.
Josh Patrick (12:32.895)
Any other any other core beliefs you could think of that those exiles might carry? Oh, I have to think about that for a second. Yeah, nobody likes me. I'm I'm unlovable. I'm you know, it could even be I'm unlikable. Yeah.
Tammy Sollenberger (12:41.783)
You
Tammy Sollenberger (12:47.915)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tammy Sollenberger (12:57.227)
Yeah, yeah. if at that bottom of that triangle, if a part of me, my exile part believes I am unlikable, then I've got a manager that's at the top of the triangle that works really hard to make sure that I'm likable. Because it's trying not for me to, I don't ever want to feel the feeling of that. I don't want to ever feel the fire of that I am unlikable. So my manager works really hard to make sure that I don't feel that. But I'm going to feel that in some way.
Josh Patrick (12:58.311)
Yeah, so if in, at the bottom of that triangle, if a part of me, my exiled part believes I am unlikable, then I've got a manager that's at the top of the triangle that works really hard to make sure that I'm likable. Because it's trying not for me to, I don't ever want to feel the feeling of that. I don't want to ever feel the fire of that I am unlikable. So my manager works really hard to make sure that I don't feel that. But I'm going to feel that in some way. So when I feel that I'm unlikable, when that
Tammy Sollenberger (13:24.181)
So when I feel that I'm unlikable, when that fire of that burden really gets kicked up, my firefighter comes in, and those are the parts that we don't tend to like, because they are impulsive. They're gonna do whatever they need to do to get that fire out. So these are the parts that they're gonna shop, and they're gonna drink, and they're gonna have addictions, and they're gonna have a temper, and they're gonna destroy things.
Josh Patrick (13:27.879)
fire of that burden really gets kicked up, my firefighter comes in and those are the parts that we don't tend to like because they are impulsive. They're going to do whatever they need to do to get that fire out. So these are the parts that are going to shop and they're going to drink and they're going to have addictions and they're going to have a temper and they're going to destroy things in order to get that fire out. And so those are often the parts that we don't like.
Tammy Sollenberger (13:50.901)
in order to get that fire out. And so those are often the parts that we don't like.
Josh Patrick (13:56.037)
But they're not really, they're not, the firefighter is not solving something. It sounds like the firefighter is just making something new up that's bad. Well, it thinks it's solving something because it's solving the fire. It's almost like, if you think of it as like a house and the managers and the firefighters, the protective part of us, they, they live in the living room of the house. They live in the living room and exile is stuck in the basement.
Tammy Sollenberger (14:06.187)
Well, it thinks it's solving something because it's solving the fire. It's almost like, if you think of it as like a house and the managers and the firefighters, the protective part of us, they live in the living room of the house. They live in the living room and the exile is stuck in the basement. And that exile of I'm unlikeable, that's gonna come up sometimes, even if we don't want it to, it's gonna come up. And so when it comes up, the firefighter does whatever it needs to do.
Josh Patrick (14:24.302)
And that exile of I'm unlikeable, that's going to come up sometimes, even if we don't want it. So it's going to come up. And so when it comes up, the firefighter does whatever it needs to do to push it back down. Like the manager works really hard to make sure the fire, the exile never comes upstairs. And the firefighter works really hard when it does come upstairs to like kick it back down the stairs. So somebody has a drug issue. What would be the positive that the firefighter would think about that?
Tammy Sollenberger (14:33.355)
to push it back down. Like the manager works really hard to make sure the fire, the XL never comes upstairs. And the firefighter works really hard when it does come upstairs to like kick it back down the stairs.
Tammy Sollenberger (14:54.143)
Yeah, yeah. the idea of, let's say, a drug issue is I'm bad, right? There's some sort of I'm bad, there's some sort of shame happening. And so when I feel the shame, I use the drugs in order to not feel the shame. And so it takes away the shame, which then we know doesn't actually work, right? Because then I feel more shame. And so then my manager might come in and say, OK, now we're going to AA. I this happens for me. Let's talk about it like for you and I, just as
Josh Patrick (14:54.502)
Yeah, yeah. So the idea of, let's say, a drug issue is I'm bad, right? There's some sort of I'm bad, there's some sort of shame happening. And so when I feel the shame, I use the drugs in order to not feel the shame. And so it takes away the shame, which then we know doesn't actually work, right? Because then I feel more shame. And so then my manager might come in and say, OK, now we're going to AA. I this happens for me. Let's talk about it for you and I.
Tammy Sollenberger (15:24.149)
regular average Joes, right? So I have a part that could be like, this actually happened recently where I, was I eating? Easter. I was eating Easter. So this Easter was not that long ago and I was eating a lot of Easter candy. So I'm like, Easter candy, yum, yum. Just eating it. I wasn't even triggered. I just was sort of like, it's Easter, there's candy around, I'm gonna eat it. Probably younger part that likes eating candy. There's nothing wrong with that, right?
Josh Patrick (15:24.484)
regular average Joes. So I have a part that could be like, this actually happened recently where I was eating, Easter. I was eating Easter. So this Easter was not that long ago and I was eating a lot of Easter candy. So I'm like Easter candy yum yum yum. Just eating it. I wasn't even triggered. I just was sort of like, it's Easter, there's candy around, I'm gonna eat it. Probably younger part that likes eating candy. There's nothing wrong with that, right?
Tammy Sollenberger (15:53.227)
Like a younger part of me, like little girl part likes eating candy. Fine. A part comes in and it's like, we're fat, we're unlovable, something's wrong with us. You can never eat this candy again. You need to go on a diet. You need to go buy a pill. You need to join Weight Watchers. Like all of this energy of I've done something wrong. I am something wrong and we need to fix it immediately.
Josh Patrick (15:53.552)
Like a younger part of me, like little girl part likes eating candy. Fine. A part comes in and it's like, we're fat, we're unlovable, something's wrong with us. You can never eat this candy again. You need to go on a diet. You need to go buy a pill. You need to join Weight Watchers. Like all of this energy of I've done something wrong. I am something wrong and we need to fix it immediately. So.
eating candy does what for us? And then getting yelled at about eating candy does what for us? You know, it of seems to me like this is a, know, it makes sense. But at the same time, it seems that we're almost pushing a negative to the fore to, quote, solve a problem.
which needs to have a different strategy. Well, it's yeah. it's it's it's a parts core parts. They really fail at their jobs all the time. So this part says, OK, I'll I know what to do to help you. I have an idea because I have kind of like one idea. My idea is when your kid yells at you, eat candy. That's a great idea. That's going to make you feel better. And so that part's agenda is to make me feel better.
Tammy Sollenberger (16:55.647)
Well, it's yeah. it's like parts, poor parts, they really fail at their jobs all the time. So this part says, okay, I know what to do to help you. I have an idea, because parts have kind of like one idea. My idea is when your kid yells at you, eat candy. That's a great idea. That's gonna make you feel better. And so that part's agenda is to make me feel better.
Like make me feel better when son yells at me because that makes me feel bad about myself and I feel like a bad mom. So that part's agenda is let me help you feel better because candy will help you feel better. It's like that narrow of a focus.
Josh Patrick (17:22.978)
Like make me feel better when Son yells at me because that makes me feel bad about myself. I feel like a bad mom. So that part's agenda is let me help you feel feel better because candy will help you feel better. It's like that narrow of a focus. And this really helps us understand why we do stupid things or why we do things that we don't like to do. Like why in the world do I keep doing these negative things or why do I keep drinking?
Tammy Sollenberger (17:40.075)
And this really helps us understand why we do stupid things or why we do things that we don't like to do. Like why in the world do I keep doing these negative things? Or why do I keep drinking when I know I'm gonna lose my license? Or why do I keep doing drugs when I know I'm gonna lose my family? Or why do I keep whatever, why do I eat candy when I know that it's gonna actually make me feel bad because I'm gonna have a sugar crash and then feel guilty that I ate the candy? Why do I do that? This understanding of parts helps us understand this might be a reason why we do these things that...
Josh Patrick (17:50.213)
when I know I'm going to lose my license or why do I keep doing drugs when I know I'm going to lose my family or why do I keep whatever it why are we candy when I know that it's going to actually make me feel bad because I'm going have a sugar crash and then feel guilty that I ate the candy. Why do do that? This understanding of parts helps us understand this might be a reason why we do these things that we don't want to do and we can bring a set of what we usually do is we vilify these parts. They're bad or negative. Something's wrong with them.
Tammy Sollenberger (18:10.059)
we don't want to do and we can bring instead of what we usually do is we vilify these parts. They're bad, they're negative, something's wrong with them. Instead of doing that and hating them or throwing a behavioral plan at them and saying, change, you need to change, you're ruining my life. We and our authentic self can bring curiosity and be like, hey buddy, we do have other ways of feeling better. Tell me about when did you start using candy to feel better?
Josh Patrick (18:18.2)
Instead of doing that and hating them or throwing a behavioral plan at them and saying, change, you need to change or ruining my life. We, an authentic self can bring curiosity and be like, Hey buddy, we do have other ways of feeling better. What tell me about, when did you start using candy to feel better? Tell me about when you learned that. Tell me about what that's like for you. Tell me about how you're trying to help me. And if I can bring curiosity to those parts that are
Tammy Sollenberger (18:38.569)
Tell me about when you learned that. Tell me about what that's like for you. Tell me about how you're trying to help me. And if I can bring curiosity to those parts that are being negative, which I'm putting in quotes, then that opens, that's that first step of that relationship between me and the part that's doing the bad negative thing.
Josh Patrick (18:47.715)
being negative, which I'm putting in quotes, then that opens up that first step of that relationship between me and the part that's doing the bad negative thing. So it would seem to me that a lot of these negative things that we do, we learn when we were young. And if we try to go back and say, OK, when did we start doing this? It can be really difficult to remember. So how do you pass that?
Tammy Sollenberger (19:15.372)
Yeah.
Well, so what we'll say is I'm going to ask the part. I'm trying not to think about, I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going to try to figure it out. Like that's another part. But if I'm in self and I've got this, or if I'm being me and I'm getting a, having a conversation with this part and I just asked the part, Hey buddy, when did you learn to do that? And let's just see what the part says. It's wild because this does work. I know it sounds weird. It sounds woo woo. It sounds like there's just a part of me thinking it up or the sort of
Josh Patrick (19:17.924)
Well, so what we'll say is I'm going to ask the part. I'm trying not to think about, I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going to try to figure it out. Like that's another part. But if I'm in self and I've got this, or if I'm being me and I'm getting a, having a conversation with this part and I just asked the part, Hey buddy, when did you learn to do that? And let's just see what the part says. It's wild because this does work. I know it sounds weird. It sounds woo woo. It sounds like
there's a part of me thinking it up or sort of past memory. You don't have to have any past memories of it. And the part might say, I don't know. I just know that eating candy feels good. Okay. Okay. So then I could say, well, how old do you think I am or how old are you? And this is where we get that idea that these parts are often really young, like young, and they learn to do it young, even if we don't have a specific memory or a specific time. And yeah, so sometimes parts will just come up with some memory that you wouldn't even put with it.
Tammy Sollenberger (19:47.685)
Past memory you don't have to have any past memories of it and the part might say I don't know I just know that eating candy feels good. Okay Okay, so and then I can say well how old do you think I am or how old are you and this is where we get that idea that these parts are often really young like young and they learn to do it young even if we don't have a specific memory or a specific time and
Yeah, so sometimes parts will just come up with some memory that you wouldn't even put with it. And sometimes they'll tell you an age and sometimes they'll tell you something completely different. We can't really even think about it. It really is just asking the part and having the part tell us.
Josh Patrick (20:14.979)
And sometimes they'll tell you an age and sometimes they'll tell you something completely different. We can't really even think about it. It really is just asking the part and having the part tell us. So what's the difference between this and multiple personalities? Okay. So multiple personalities has this idea though, that all these, that multiple personalities is like came out of trauma or came out of like we're crazy because we have these
Tammy Sollenberger (20:29.333)
Okay, so multiple personalities has this idea though that all these pers- that multiple personalities is like came out of trauma or came out of like, we're crazy because we have these, you know, these different personalities. And when I'm in this personality, I don't have any memory. But I, so I can be in my, this personality who's Joe and Joe can be a male. And when I'm Joe, then I have no memory of being Joe. There's sort of these,
Josh Patrick (20:40.739)
you know, these different personalities. And when I'm in this personality, I don't have any memory. So I can be in this personality who's Joe, and Joe can be a male. And when I'm Joe, then I have no memory of being Joe. There's sort of these walls between personalities. And so what IFF says is it's natural for us to be multiple. It's natural for us to be. We came into this world multiple. Our minds are naturally multiple.
Tammy Sollenberger (20:56.247)
walls between personalities. And so what IFS says is it's natural for us to be multiple. It's natural for us to be. came into this world multiple. Our minds are naturally multiple. Not in a multiple personality way, in a, a, in a, our personalities are multiple. We're saying something different, even though I know it sounds the same. We're using the same words.
Josh Patrick (21:08.93)
not in a multiple personality way, in a, a, in a, personalities are multiple. We're saying something different, even though know it sounds the same, we're using the same words. But it means I'm very aware, and I'm aware of the part of me that's eating the candy. I'm aware of the part of me that's feeling guilty about that. I'm aware of the part of me that's like, okay, let's go run five miles now. Like I'm very, I'm there too. Like I'm there too, and I'm there, and I can be very aware of these parts. Like the devil and the angel on the shoulder.
Tammy Sollenberger (21:20.695)
But it means I'm very aware, right? I'm aware of the part of me that's eating the candy. I'm aware of the part of me that's feeling guilty about that. I'm aware of the part of me that's like, OK, let's go run five miles now. Like, I'm very, I'm there too. Like, I'm there too. And I'm very, and I can be very aware of these parts. It's like the devil and the angel on the shoulder. But we're saying, you can turn towards the devil telling you one thing. You can turn towards the angel telling you another thing. But you're there too. And what happens when the three of you have a conversation with the
Josh Patrick (21:37.314)
But we're saying you can turn towards the devil telling you one thing, you can turn towards the angel telling you another thing, but you're there too. And what happens when the three of you have a conversation with the understanding or the assumption that both the devil and the angel on your shoulder have a positive intention for you? is this more effective if you're under hypnosis?
Tammy Sollenberger (21:49.597)
with the understanding or the assumption that both the devil and the angel on your shoulder have a positive intention for you.
Tammy Sollenberger (22:03.511)
I don't think so. I think this can be really effective. I do it as a client. I do it in therapy all day long. I do not think that you have to be under hypnosis in order to do it. I think you have to be curious. I think that you have to be open and curious. And there ways of us to help the parts of you that maybe aren't open or aren't curious. I think we can help those.
Josh Patrick (22:07.103)
Think so?
I think this is gonna be really effective. I do it as a client. I do it in therapy all day long. I do not think that you have to be under hypnosis in order to do it. I think you have to be curious. I think that you have to be open and curious. And there ways of us to help the parts of you that maybe aren't open or aren't curious. I think we can help those soften back a little bit so there's more curiosity and you can get a little more engaged in your inner world.
Tammy Sollenberger (22:31.901)
soften back a little bit so there's more curiosity and you can get a little more engaged in your inner world.
Josh Patrick (22:39.073)
That's interesting. So if you're not curious, IFS is not going to be very effective. I think if you're not curious, there's a part here. And can we get to know that part in some way? There's a part that's saying, I don't want to be curious. I don't want to know. I don't want to find out. That's fine. It's going to be too hard. It's going to be too scary. It's going to be like, this is stupid. Whatever that is, OK. All those parts are welcome. And let's see what they want to say.
Tammy Sollenberger (22:44.951)
I think if you're not curious, there's a part here. And can we get to know that part in some way? There's a part that's saying, I don't want to be curious. I don't want to know. I don't want to find out. That's fine. It's going to be too hard. It's going to be too scary. It's going to be like, this is stupid. Whatever that is, OK. All those parts are welcome. And let's see what they want to say.
Josh Patrick (23:06.911)
That's, I like that statement, all the parts are welcome.
So, is that an IFS statement or is that something you came up with? I would love to say that it's my statement, but it's not. It's an IFS statement. Okay. Yeah, all parts are welcome. And then Dick's book is one of his latest books is called No Bad Parts. That's another IFS statement. can't take credit for that. All parts welcome, no bad parts. Does it mean that parts don't do bad things? Of course parts do bad things. Parts of us do bad things. And all parts are welcome.
Tammy Sollenberger (23:15.423)
I would love to say that it's my statement, but it's not, it's an IFS statement. Yeah, all parts are welcome. And then Dick's book is his, one of his latest books is called No Bad Parts. So that's another IFS statement, I can't take credit for that. So all parts welcome, no bad parts. Does it mean that parts don't do bad things? Of course parts do bad things, parts of us do bad things. And all parts are welcome, that doesn't mean that all parts are welcome.
Josh Patrick (23:39.585)
That doesn't mean that all parts are welcome to do and behave or act in certain ways. It means that I inside and welcoming all my parts and saying, let's get in relationship. Let's get in a relationship. I want to hear your story. I want to hear what's happening for you that you keep doing a BNC. So I'm curious, has AFS ever been used with inmates? Yes, yes. Yeah.
Tammy Sollenberger (23:42.775)
to do and behave or act in certain ways. It means that I inside am welcoming all my parts and saying, let's get in relationship. Let's get in a relationship. I want to hear your story. I want to hear what's happening for you that you keep doing ABNC.
Tammy Sollenberger (24:05.877)
Yes, yes, I just yelled that, yeah, yeah. I did a podcast. I did a podcast with that a very long time ago with a man had been, I cannot remember his name or what this podcast, when this was, but it's had great, great impact. And one of my friends in my spiritual community, he uses my book. He goes into prison, like his local prison and uses my book and does groups.
Josh Patrick (24:09.185)
I did a podcast. I did a podcast with that a very long time ago with a man, and I cannot remember his name or what this podcast, when this was, but it's had great, great impact. And one of my friends in my spiritual community, he uses my book. He goes into prison, like his local prison, and uses my book and does groups. And I'm going to assume that
service members coming back from Iraq or Iran or Afghanistan with PTSD. This would be a very effective form of therapy. I mean, can't you imagine that? Yes. Because think about like just being able to name just just being able to name different parts. Yes. Just being able to name, right? There are parts of me that enjoyed this thing that I did. There are parts of me that are horrified. There's parts of me that are proud. There's parts of me that are ashamed. Right? These
Tammy Sollenberger (24:47.575)
I mean, can't you imagine that? Yes. Because think about like just being able to name, just being able to name different parts. Just being able to name, right? There's parts of me that enjoyed this thing that I did. There are parts of me that are horrified. There's parts of me that are proud. There's parts of me that are ashamed, right? These, we all have these parts and certain people and certain jobs and certain experiences, they're gonna be bigger. They're gonna be more intense, but we all have these different parts.
Josh Patrick (25:05.759)
We all have these parts and certain people and certain jobs and certain experiences, they're going to be bigger. They're going to be more intense, but we all have these different parts and we can maybe even listeners or maybe even you can just notice what happens when I just named them. Not all of me is anxious. Not all of me is angry. Not all of me is embarrassed. There's an embarrassed one and there's one that's mad. I'm Okay. And then I'm there too. It's not just parts. It's I'm here too.
Tammy Sollenberger (25:14.571)
And we can maybe even listeners or maybe even you can just notice what happens when I just named them. Not all of me is anxious. Not all of me is angry. Not all of me is embarrassed. There's an embarrassed one and there's one that's mad that I'm embarrassed. Okay, and then I'm there too. It's not just parts, it's I'm here too. Myself, my true self is right here listening and being with these parts of me.
Josh Patrick (25:34.816)
My true self is right here listening and being with these parts of me. So, seems to me that IFS helps you to become more human. Wouldn't that be nice? Well, would you agree with that statement? I think so. And the idea of how we define being human. It's also being parts, having parts is also part of being human. And so, maybe it helps us.
Tammy Sollenberger (25:44.832)
Wouldn't that be nice?
Tammy Sollenberger (25:49.235)
I think so. And the idea that how we define being human, right? It's also being parts, having parts is also part of being human. And so it maybe it's like helps us, being more self-led helps us be the kind of humans we want to be and the kind of humans we wished other people would be.
Josh Patrick (26:02.868)
being more self-led helps us be the kind of humans we want to be and the kind of humans we wished other people would be. Makes sense. So Tammy, unfortunately, we are out of time. And I'm going to bet there are some people who are listening to this that would like to find you. So how would they go about doing that?
Josh Patrick (26:24.041)
They can find me at my website, tamisalemberger.com and everything's there. The book, the podcast, I'm on Instagram, Facebook, I have a sub stack, but everything, you can find everything at the website. Okay, cool. And I've got two things I'd like you to do. The first is to go to wherever you're listening to this podcast and give us an honest rating and review. If you love it, she can give me five stars. If you hate it, she can give us one star.
Tammy Sollenberger (26:40.118)
Okay.
Josh Patrick (26:51.934)
I'll just cry a little bit before I go back to life, but I will eventually get over it. And the second thing is I would love to have you be a guest on the show if you think you have something to offer. Tammy has some great information, probably not the type of guest you would expect to see on this show, but there we are. And I think it's really valuable for us to learn all sorts of different things because we're doing this as an experiment to find out what
Tammy Sollenberger (26:55.479)
you
Josh Patrick (27:22.087)
are the options we have to work on the six areas that we're investigating on the Long Strange Trip. So thank you so much for stopping by today. I hope to see you back here really soon. Thanks for this for Tammy Sullenberger and Josh Patrick. You're at the Long Strange Trip podcast. Thanks a lot for stopping by. Come back next week.
Josh Outro:
Thanks for spending this time with me today. I really appreciate you being part of this journey. I'd be grateful if you leave an honest rating and review. It helps other people find these conversations. Lets me know what's landing with you and what isn't. If you love this show, give us five stars, and if you hate it, give it one star and I'll just cry a little bit.
Keep asking the hard questions, keep being honest about what's difficult, and remember. We're all just trying to figure this out together.
I'll talk to you next time on the Long Strange Trip. Thanks for stopping by.
