The Long Strange Episode 14: The Power of Presence: Embracing Life's Journey with Jennifer Hough
About the Episode:
Resilience: It’s Not Just About Gritting Your Teeth
I’ve spent a lot of time lately thinking about why some of us bounce back while others just… break. I suspect most of us were taught that resilience is basically "brute force"—you put your head down, grit your teeth, and outlast the storm. But is that really all there is to it?
I recently sat down with Jennifer Howe on the Long Strange Trip podcast, and she poked a pretty big hole in my "tough it out" theory. She looks at resilience not as a survival tactic, but as a path to actually flourishing.
It got me wondering: If we aren't just trying to survive the wreckage, what are we actually doing?
The Trap of "Brute Force"
For most of my life as a business guy, I operated on brute force. If there was a problem, I pushed through it. But Jennifer shared a story about her husband’s back surgery recovery that stopped me cold. There’s a massive difference between pushing through pain and actually accepting the reality of the situation.
When we just "push," we’re usually resisting. And resistance is exhausting. I’ve found—and I’m still learning this, believe me—that the "messy middle" of any transition is where we usually try to force an outcome because we're scared. But what if the goal isn't to get to the end, but to be present right in the middle of the mess?
Acceptance vs. Giving Up
I used to think acceptance was a sign of weakness—like waving a white flag. Jennifer sees it differently. She argues that by accepting a situation exactly as it is, you create the emotional space to actually do something wise.
It’s like that Landmark Education concept: once you stop fighting the "what is," you're finally free to play with "what could be." It’s about being pulled by nothing and available for everything. Does that sound a bit "navel-gazing"? Maybe. But when you're 73 and looking at "way less life going forward," these questions start to feel a lot more urgent than the next P&L statement.
From Pain to Inspiration
The most interesting part of our chat was how Jennifer turns her own challenges—her mother’s health struggles or family accidents—into "fodder" for something bigger. She’s used that friction to start international projects.
It makes me think:
Are my current struggles just roadblocks, or are they the actual fuel for my next act?
If I’m no longer the "business guy" who fixes everything by force, who am I allowed to become?
The Bottom Line
Resilience isn't a shield; it's more like a lens. It’s the ability to stay present and wise even when the world feels like it's falling apart. I don't have this all figured out—I'm still very much in the "stuck" phase myself sometimes—but I'm starting to suspect that flourishing only happens when we stop trying to outrun the struggle.
What do you think? Are you gritting your teeth today, or are you actually present?
Transcription:
Introduction (Josh)
Welcome to the Long Strange Trip. I'm Josh. the host of the show. We're going to dig into six areas together, finding real work-life integration. Instead of that brutal 9 to 5 5 split too many business owners to live with. We're going to approach retirement as an actual reinvention. Rather than just stopping work. and we're facing death honestly, and avoiding PTSD around it. We're also building resilience,
when life throws us curve balls. We're sharing wisdom across generations. And finally, we're understanding the patterns that show up in all our transitions. I'm not coming at this as an expert I'm a fellow traveler figuring this stuff out in real time.
Especially now as I navigate my own dual cancer diagnosis at 73.
Welcome to the Long Strange Trip. I'm glad you're here.
Josh Patrick (00:00.921)
Hey Howard, today you're at the Long Strange Trip podcast and I hope you can recognize where that title came from or what the podcast title comes from. I happen to be a dead head and it's one of the lyrics from Trucking. So I've had a long strange trip in my life and we talk with people who have also had long strange trips in their life. And today we're really, really, really lucky.
Jennifer (00:26.126)
Mm.
Josh Patrick (00:29.667)
They have my friend Jennifer Howe here today. She has a company called Wide Awakening. She does more interesting things psychically than about anybody I know. And every time I speak to her, we could go on for hours in all these different areas. But we're going to try to stay relatively focused today. I don't know how successful it be because I am a great lover of bright, shiny objects and we'll move all over the place.
We're going to start off talking about resilience. So, let's bring Jennifer on. And Jennifer, here's my first question for you, maybe my only question for you. What is your definition of resilience?
Jennifer (01:06.158)
Let's see.
Jennifer (01:12.974)
Definition of resilience.
The ability to handle whatever life throws your way and still stay in your presence with wisdom.
Josh Patrick (01:26.063)
That's a great definition. I love that. So, how do you do that?
Jennifer (01:32.026)
well, it's interesting because right now life is throwing a lot of things my way. So, you know, I have a stepdaughter that had a big accident. My mom is going through chemo and radiation. Certainly my marriage is an ever an ever evolving, you know, amazing journey and a long and strange journey in and of itself. And
Yeah, it's a lot.
Jennifer (02:09.07)
How do you get to a place where you actually can handle whatever life throws your way, which is one thing, with presence and wisdom is the other part of it. And I would even challenge the question with another question. What if not only could we handle whatever came our way, but we actually flourished through it?
And I don't think that is resilience. I mean, I could redefine resilience to mean that. I don't know if there's a word that means flourishing through and staying in your presence with wisdom. It's like, yeah.
Josh Patrick (02:51.557)
You sort of move into transition when you're doing that. The first piece of resilience probably is accepting that whatever is happening is happening.
Jennifer (03:06.806)
Yeah, yeah, it's for me, it's like if you accept what's happening and that it's happening, I put that akin to surviving really well. Like you're surviving really well then. If you can actually accept what's happening without resistance, then what happens is your nervous system doesn't leap to the rescue. You're actually dealing with what is.
I think in Landmark they call it as is in the situation, meaning it just is what it is and deal with what it is. And if you can do that, then everything you need will come your way. And yeah, I agree. I think there's also an evolution and I'm always aiming for that evolution where I flourish through. And then whenever I can see that I can go from resilience, which is a great place to start to flourishing through.
Josh Patrick (03:35.855)
right.
Josh Patrick (03:42.084)
Yeah.
Jennifer (04:04.81)
I get into this wondering of how do you embody a state where you flourish? Like, is there a way to have an operating system where you can flourish through anything without needing to go through the linear process of resilience first, right? So I spent my life really looking at that question. Do I actually, at some point, do I understand resilience and my ability to be resilient so well?
that I'm ready to embody another state of being called flourishing through anything, like already being prepared for no matter what comes my way to be able to understand that life has given me this situation for me. And so I'm leaned in already from the perspective of being excited for what I'm gonna learn from this.
At the same time, maybe I don't even prefer the situation, right? I might not prefer it. So it doesn't mean I'll be happy. It might just mean that I'm going to be blessed. I'm going to have the experience of being blessed through it. But I find that to be, at this point in my life, a choice that I get to choose to flourish through, that it's a moment where I realize I'm simply being resilient, which is fabulous.
Trust me, so grateful to be resilient on many subjects. And then I'm like, ooh, how could I flourish through this? And consciously choosing to look at that question.
Josh Patrick (05:44.675)
You know, you're pretty much describing what happens and what Bill Bridges calls the messy middle in the transition. You know, my friend Susan Bradley has four stages. He has three stages. I like her four stages. I just like messy middle better than passage, which is her term for that same place. And it seems to me that there's two types of resilience.
Jennifer (05:53.376)
Mm.
Jennifer (06:05.592)
Yes.
Josh Patrick (06:13.508)
There's a brute force resilience where you're doing stuff because you think you really need to do it. And then there's the resilience where you accept with what you're going through. And unfortunately, I think most of our fellow humans do resilience with brute force.
Jennifer (06:36.158)
Sometimes it looks like that at first, doesn't it? It's, you know, my husband went through a huge back surgery, like massive back surgery, big, big. And when he went through that back surgery, it was really interesting because you could see that everything was by, he was being resilient by brute force. And at some point I saw it, I saw it switch into, okay, this is.
Josh Patrick (06:38.755)
Yeah.
Jennifer (07:05.57)
this is what is, this is how it is. So he pushed and it was almost like pushing to get to the place where he could feel normal again, but often when we're being resilient, there's something abnormal happening that we're being resilient about it. I'm kind of looking at Josh, the way the world is right now, you all the craziness in the world. I think a lot of people through
Josh Patrick (07:30.35)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (07:35.51)
maybe not brute force, but through a serious act of consciousness or like, okay, okay, I won't watch the news. And they set up this system to be as resilient as they can. And there's going to come a point, like with my husband, where I find when I accept what is, that's when the magic happens. So for instance, when I looked around me at how the world is right now,
And because I always aim for flourishing through, I'm looking at all the contrast and I'm using it as fodder or inspiration for something like bridges to build and projects to undertake that would make this world a better place. And they found me tons of like, there's two huge, like potentially international projects that I'm working on.
so that we can come together as a global humanity. And this is what was birthed out of accepting what is, but accepting what is created the of the clearing of the decks and the platform to be able to not only accept it, but now be able to ask the question, because now I have some emotional spaciousness to ask the question, well, okay, what can I create as a result of this is the way it is?
And that's when I flourish through. Soon as I use it as fodder to be an agent of something bigger, know, whatever that looks like, you know, those projects appeared. And now I find myself occasionally trying to survive it, because you just hear something on the news like the last two days. And then all of a sudden I'm back to
it is actually fueling the projects I'm working on.
Josh Patrick (09:36.325)
So, in my experience, and this is just me and it doesn't have to be the world, certainly, I like to always remind people here that on the long strange trip, we are not here giving definitive answers or giving an answer which may or may not be true for you. And for me, resilience comes from staying present. If I allow myself to move into the what was me in the back,
Jennifer (09:59.096)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Josh Patrick (10:05.534)
or the catastrophizing of what's going to happen in the future, which is really a major issue these days, I'm going to feel stuck and paralyzed. But if I stay in the presence and just realize that, OK, here's where I am right now, here's what I can do right now, and here's what we can do right now, A, we're likely to be happier, and B, we're happy,
Jennifer (10:09.666)
So easy to do.
Jennifer (10:27.586)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Josh Patrick (10:35.173)
at for me, I'm likely to be way, way, way, way more resilient.
Jennifer (10:41.016)
for sure. Yeah.
Josh Patrick (10:42.352)
If I just stay, if I stay present, if I get bad news, I just say, OK, that's interesting.
Jennifer (10:53.934)
Yeah. so like when I said like my, the definition of resilience for me is also having presence with wisdom. mean, that totally resonates with what you just shared for sure. It's like, do you get to that place of pres, that amount of presence? And, and I remember when people used to say that to me, I was like, what even is presence? Like, what even is that? And, and over time there's this evolving
definition. And the one that resonates with me the most right now is
is pulled by nothing and available to play with anything.
Josh Patrick (11:39.98)
Interesting. Yeah.
Jennifer (11:41.374)
Right? Isn't it an interesting definition? Because I wanted to, I looked it up in the dictionary and I thought, it's not deep enough. Like I need something that kind of squishifies me or activates me in some way. And I was like, if I was in my presence all the time, I would be pulled by zero. Like nothing would ever pull me. And I would be available in a space of neutrality to dance with.
anything that resonated or called me to respond or to do something or to not do something. And I find the other result of being in my presence is that my innate wisdom is available to me when I'm in presence. But when I'm not in my presence, that innate intelligence that kind of gives me those wise transcendent answers.
No access. just, I'm just using my history based brain and that is no fun whatsoever.
Josh Patrick (12:48.841)
It was interesting that as we look in the past, often we focus on the unfortunate parts of our past, not our fortunate parts.
Jennifer (13:01.006)
Isn't that weird?
Josh Patrick (13:02.565)
I think it's human nature, frankly. You know, it's one of those things where, again, most people, if they live in the past, are not going to be especially happy people.
Jennifer (13:04.952)
Mm.
Josh Patrick (13:19.085)
And those who live in the future will likely have a bunch of disappointments.
Jennifer (13:26.7)
Because of expectations, yeah.
Josh Patrick (13:27.897)
because of expectations which are not realistic and don't come to pass. I also think that it's much easier to be flat or present as you get older.
Jennifer (13:42.7)
Hmm, interesting. Why do you think that is?
Josh Patrick (13:42.98)
Or at least it has been for me. Well, I've done an awful lot of work on myself. I mean, was an obnoxious brat when I was 25 to 35. I mean, really an obnoxious brat. And I know you don't. I can promise you I don't. I mean, I've written a lot of what I call the 95.5
Jennifer (13:48.002)
Why is that?
Jennifer (14:03.63)
I I was there for that.
Josh Patrick (14:12.591)
father, which is the business owner father or the executive father, spends 95 % of their effort and time at work and gives their family 5%. And even worse, they treat their children like they treat their employees, which is not what you need to do with children. And it causes irreparable harm that may or may not ever be cured if you try.
Jennifer (14:20.366)
Gotcha. Got it.
Jennifer (14:27.406)
me.
Josh Patrick (14:43.045)
So it's one of those things where a 30 year old Josh would never be able to have this conversation. The 40 year old Josh may have been able to have pieces of it.
Jennifer (14:49.774)
Mm.
Josh Patrick (14:56.773)
The 73 year old Josh can easily have this conversation. And it's because I've, you know, I've looked in the mirror and I've asked questions. know, I was at Montenegro Academy a couple of years ago and I have a bad habit of speaking in absolutes. And I decided while I was there, I was going to stop using absolutes.
Jennifer (15:17.934)
Mmm.
Josh Patrick (15:26.201)
Well, was like the most ridiculous thing I could have ever said.
Jennifer (15:26.614)
ever.
Jennifer (15:30.092)
never going to use absolutes ever, ever again.
Josh Patrick (15:32.996)
Yeah, that was that was well, that didn't work out very well. So then I decided, which actually has worked out very well to recognize when I'm using absolutes and change. I did the same thing around personal responsibility when I was in my early 30s, is that I was one of the most least personally responsible human being on the face of the earth. I was a till of the hunt, among other things.
Jennifer (15:42.68)
Yeah.
Jennifer (15:51.575)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (15:57.889)
interesting.
Josh Patrick (16:01.413)
I'm tall and I'm big and I don't smile a lot. So that helps with that. At any rate.
Jennifer (16:07.95)
That's so great.
But you were saying that as like the seventh, yeah, the 73 year old version of you.
Josh Patrick (16:16.043)
It's recognizing, it's recognition before change.
And again, I think that ties in the resilience.
Jennifer (16:24.27)
for sure.
Jennifer (16:29.108)
I think, yeah, I imagine that being able to become resilient, you have to be resilient if you're fearful and anxious all the time and not feeling very resilient. I mean, to me, there's like, just when just looking at the humanist experience after working with tens of thousands of people, it seems like three factors have to be in place. And personally, for me, it has been true. One is
And I, so many people don't have this, Josh. I'm curious if you have this. I'm sure you do. That it's even possible to change, like a willingness to believe that it's possible to change. Cause you wouldn't even ask the question of yourself to become something new. If you didn't, if you just thought that was the way you, I'm just an anxious person and you've never had the experience of change or had any hope about that. Like it's such an important, the willingness to believe that you can.
man, there's a, there are a couple of people out there that don't have a, yeah. And the second one I found for myself is willingness to receive help from others. like you got to transcend lone wolfiness, which neither of us have had, I'm sure. Yeah. Nope. And, and, but although you and I never got any help, right? We never were alone.
Josh Patrick (17:47.525)
Nobody gets there by themselves. Nobody.
Josh Patrick (17:57.83)
I will tell you, I have had more help and have been the luckiest guy alive from where the help has come from.
Jennifer (17:58.22)
Yeah.
Jennifer (18:08.59)
Aw, that's, and like there's a, so the next is, which reminds me of what you just said, is a certain amount of vulnerability. Like you gotta be vulnerable enough to.
I mean, it might be wisdom, be vulnerability, but there's a certain thing of recognizing that you really, you know, the more you know, the more you know, you don't know, like you really don't know. And so being vulnerable enough to not have your crap handled, you know, it's, it's.
Josh Patrick (18:37.081)
Right. Right.
Josh Patrick (18:44.429)
That gets to my issue with absolutes. See, so that is really hard to be vulnerable when you're spouting absolutes because you are the God and you know everything. I mean, one of the things that's very different about this project versus all the other stuff I've ever done in my life is I am playing the role of a seeker. I am not in the role of an expert.
Jennifer (18:47.63)
yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jennifer (19:07.918)
Mmm
Josh Patrick (19:11.203)
Yes, do I have opinions? Of course. Do I have knowledge about some things? Yes, of course. But in this particular case, even the areas I'm highly expert in, and by the way, being highly expert is a dangerous place to be.
Jennifer (19:25.366)
and right?
Josh Patrick (19:26.969)
Right? Because you don't consider other options. Or most of the time. I mean, if I'm working with a lawyer who has a special specialty and they're going down this road and I say, we need to be thinking broader, which is what a generalist brings to the party, by the way. I'm on this big, big thing of generalist versus specialist right now. And I think you need to have generalists in your life.
Jennifer (19:29.74)
Yep.
Jennifer (19:44.792)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (19:48.29)
Mm-hmm.
Josh Patrick (19:53.071)
because they have a broad knowledge. It may not be especially deep. And if it's a good generalist who is willing to be vulnerable, they will bring in the right specialists at the right time.
Jennifer (20:05.038)
So this is weird. I have this superpower, okay, that I noticed. And I think you might have it too, but I find one of like, I've trained myself into this thing of being able to, I think, okay, okay Josh, you're gonna love this. I think that I am a, I'll say it first. So I have this capacity to go meta.
Like very meta, I mean, universally meta, almost to the extent of like no one else can follow what I'm talking about. And then I, it's almost like a Russian doll within that meta, the next reality is born. And then within that, you know, context, the next reality, the next, and I can come right down and it helps me actually, when I go through a process about my business, that's how I do it.
big picture, like what's going on in the world. Nevermind what I want for my business. What's going on in the world, da da da da, come down, come down, come down, until I can get to be like this into the minutia of this. And it's almost like becoming a specialist. But the specialist was only birthed because I could go to the greater context first. So what if I'm a specialist at going from meta to being a specialist? What?
Josh Patrick (21:28.282)
Well, generalists, I mean, here's my experience. Generalists who are good always have several specialties.
Jennifer (21:33.367)
Yeah.
Jennifer (21:40.566)
Okay.
Josh Patrick (21:41.639)
But they tend to start when they look at a situation as from the viewpoint of a generalist, not a specialist. They don't bring the specialist to bear to what's appropriate to do so, which is after you've gone into your Russian dolls, eight or nine levels. You know, I always ask people, say, you know, the key to being a great communicator is learning how to ask great questions.
Jennifer (21:50.094)
Mm-hmm.
Jennifer (21:58.51)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jennifer (22:08.334)
Mmm, amen.
Josh Patrick (22:10.816)
And if you can ask great questions, you're going to peel the onion and get to the core issue pretty quickly. And once you're at the core issue, then you know, do I need a specialist and what type?
Jennifer (22:24.686)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think this goes back to what we were talking about around going from being resilient to flourishing through. Because when we get to that place where we have acceptance and we start asking better questions, we're available to better questions. Like I feel like when I get to that place, I am available to those
grander, more productive, more, I don't know, it's just better questions. Questions that bring energy through my body. So there's something around in resilience, getting to that place where you're willing to flourish through, where you're being vulnerable, where you're willing to get help, and when you're willing to believe that there are answers where maybe before there weren't.
And it's almost like that's when those generalist wise questions start coming to bear, it feels like. then, and then, and because I, and not everyone is born to be a generalist either. I mean, there are people that I know that are,
They are so myopic sounds like a judgmental word. I don't mean it as a judgmental word, but they're so focused in on their specialty. And I love those people. They, yeah, yeah.
Josh Patrick (23:56.525)
They have a role to play, an important role to play. But here's the thing that I find with generalists. Again, this is just my experience, is that generalists are curious, incredibly curious. The better the generalist is, the more curious they are as people. And when you're curious, you tend to go across several topics. You don't go deep in one.
Although you might go deep in one for a while because that's where your curiosity takes you. But for the most part, when you see something that you don't understand, you get curious about it. You don't sit there and say, I have an opinion and that's my opinion and screw you.
Jennifer (24:27.758)
Sure.
Jennifer (24:44.086)
Not great for communication.
Josh Patrick (24:45.67)
Not great for communications. I used to do that. I was right and you were wrong.
Jennifer (24:54.232)
FUN!
Josh Patrick (24:55.19)
Yeah, I was a really fun guy to be around. I think my ex or former team members would not say I was fun.
Jennifer (24:57.198)
That's so fun. Yay.
Jennifer (25:06.446)
Well, then maybe I am glad that I know you now. You're bringing something to mind, Josh, that's really cool because I work with a lot of visionaries, like people who have...
beautiful bridge building.
inventive, creative, transcendent ideas to move. the people I work with tend to look at humanity and look at the sides and look at the polarities. And then as I was sharing before, they already know that there's a way. You know, one of those women actually wrote a book called There's Always a Way. So, you know, and so for those people, I find they're the
Josh Patrick (25:49.062)
Yes.
Jennifer (25:58.846)
the perfect, it just brought to mind something else that I'll share too. The perfect people to build bridges to what's next because there's a built-in sense of resilience already there. And I want to share something.
This is certainly not true, but it's not a truth.
Jennifer (26:26.176)
Some, I get that it's easier to be resilient when you probably had a uplifting family or a family that saw you and got you. Likely, I suspect it might be slightly skewed, but some of the people that are the most resilient are people that have proven to themselves without that family.
You know, it's because they didn't have that family that they've proven themselves to just know that they can get through anything as possible. So.
Josh Patrick (26:57.83)
My father was incredibly unsupported.
Jennifer (27:03.127)
Lovely.
Josh Patrick (27:04.132)
Yes. So I had, you know, I've been doing a bunch of IFS, internal family systems therapy. And, you know, there's a 16 year old living there that wants to protect me from everything in the world. And he gets very obnoxious.
Jennifer (27:22.83)
Hmm.
Josh Patrick (27:23.526)
So, that's, know, resilience. Well, in my case, resilience came as a result of my father being an asshole. He wasn't physically an asshole, but verbally, boy, he was.
Jennifer (27:34.54)
Yeah, and-
Jennifer (27:39.126)
Yeah, had a couple of those too. And I would say that,
Jennifer (27:48.64)
Sometimes I've also seen in families that were just really, really great. Sometimes there isn't resilience because you didn't have to make it through anything. It's not true all the time, but that can also happen in my experience. And so the reason I brought this up is because I had one of my clients sort of debating it with me. Well, I think it's because I had a really good family and therefore I'm resilient. And I'm like, I don't know, some of the most...
Josh Patrick (27:58.094)
I love it.
Josh Patrick (28:13.834)
No, no, no, no. He is lucky he's resilient.
Jennifer (28:17.518)
Yeah, some of the most can do people I know, know that they can do because they had to do it all on their own. so when people think, because, okay, so this is why I'm bringing it up, Josh, because I have very intimate conversations with people about their lives, right? Very, very intimate conversations and they're, they're beautiful. I'm so blessed. And in those conversations, so often when people go through what I would call
Josh Patrick (28:23.973)
We hit.
Josh Patrick (28:34.106)
Yes.
Jennifer (28:48.382)
nightmarish upbringings or extremely challenging upbringings. There's a thought that occurs to those people pretty consistently as a child and you'll understand it. I understand that thought and the thought is
Well, because I didn't have amazing parents, I'm starting with a handicap. life is handicapped because I didn't have a great father or a great mother or one of my parents left, right? And so what that does for the rest of their entire life, only because of their perspective, not because it's true, is there's always this little, like, 5-10 % sabotage in the background that says,
Josh Patrick (29:19.302)
Well, I, yeah.
Jennifer (29:37.562)
You know, you're never gonna actually have as great a life as the people who actually did have the great parents. And it's just a little tiny voice way back here, but it almost dilutes. It dilutes the power of the experience of their life when the fact that they made it through is the reason why. Yeah, so anyways.
Josh Patrick (29:54.544)
with imposter syndrome.
Josh Patrick (30:05.897)
Unfortunately, Jennifer, we have run out of time. In we run over time. And we could – have like 19 things I'd to continue the conversation about. Well, you know, the challenge is people don't want to sit and listen for an hour. So, you are a fascinating person. I've thought that for a long time now. How do people find you?
Jennifer (30:14.818)
You need to make your show longer, Josh. That's the thing.
Jennifer (30:22.059)
It's true.
Jennifer (30:28.651)
Aww.
people find me. The best place to find me is probably at the wide awakening.com. They can, we do a wonderful every other week newsletter that kind of activates being able to live in this sense of freedom in that flourishing through kind of way. And of course I'm on facebook.com forward slash Jennifer Huff. If you want to find me personally and
I would say...
I would say the best way to find us is in our community and that's agents of awakening.com. People can join for free and have these conversations all the time. So I love that.
Josh Patrick (31:16.102)
That sounds good. And I would like you to do one thing if you're interested. If you enjoyed this podcast and you say, gee, I really like this podcast and I have something I think I can add to the long, strange trip, send me an email. We'll have a conversation about you being on the show. It's pretty easy to do. You just go to jpatrick at stage2solution.com. That's the number two. And solution is singular. And I wish I could have made a plural would have been a lot easier.
Jennifer (31:45.198)
Yeah.
Josh Patrick (31:45.872)
but the URL is jpatrick at stage2solution.com. Just drop me a line. We'll set up a time to talk and we'll see if it will be good for you to be a guest on the Long Strange Trip.
Jennifer (31:59.54)
It's fun to talk to Josh.
Josh Patrick (32:01.799)
So, we're with Jennifer Howe and I'm Josh Patrick. And thanks a lot for stopping by. I hope to see you back here next week. Talk to you soon.
Outro:
Thanks for spending this time with me today. I really appreciate you being part of this journey. I'd be grateful if you leave an honest rating and review. It helps other people find these conversations. Lets me know what's landing with you and what isn't. If you love this show, give us five stars, and if you hate it, give it one star and I'll just cry a little bit.
Keep asking the hard questions, keep being honest about what's difficult, and remember. We're all just trying to figure this out together.
I'll talk to you next time on the Long Strange Trip. Thanks for stopping by.
